tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post1157343884662489921..comments2024-01-24T20:19:07.001-08:00Comments on touches of sense...: A little bird.sensor63http://www.blogger.com/profile/11879294013686784713noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-56768834323303164212014-11-16T12:28:21.085-08:002014-11-16T12:28:21.085-08:00Thanks Jon I would be very interested to know how ...Thanks Jon I would be very interested to know how you propose to document. We agree with the course not disappearing any time soon. I have a #highered hat too. I think that "integrative" courses are the way to go. Be interested to know how u guys are going about it. There is much to document and to discover - a wonderful adventure. Thank you for sharing. sensor63https://www.blogger.com/profile/11879294013686784713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-55522302131754329112014-11-16T11:54:51.069-08:002014-11-16T11:54:51.069-08:00Fair enough, Simon, but I would re-iterate that I ...Fair enough, Simon, but I would re-iterate that I very specifically avoided any form of the word "measure." Documentation need not be measurement.<br /><br />Also, I'll add that I come with a very particular lens. While I'm fascinated by how to track/document learning in and through networks rather than courses, I'm in a particular space within a formal institution of higher education where we're trying to advance the principles of connected/networked learning within and between courses. We're not going to get rid of courses (not anytime soon, at least). So, it's hard for me to take off that #highered hat.<br /><br />To your last comment...re: "the #rhizo14 refrain", that's exactly what Gardner Campbell is after by way of integrative thinking. If we could get students making those sorts of connections (within and) between courses, we all win.Jon Beckerhttp://jonbecker.net/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-20919257906607796602014-11-16T10:57:24.516-08:002014-11-16T10:57:24.516-08:00I think the blog post is written like Peter and th...I think the blog post is written like Peter and the Wolf -,there is a Wolf, there are themes of animals, huntsmen, Peter, there are recurrent refrains. There is an underlyîng exploration of dominant narrative and the wolf is fascism.sensor63https://www.blogger.com/profile/11879294013686784713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-59800050664603609202014-11-16T10:52:54.664-08:002014-11-16T10:52:54.664-08:00Example - myself the #rhizo14 refrain sinks into t...Example - myself the #rhizo14 refrain sinks into the background and then suddenly reappears here.sensor63https://www.blogger.com/profile/11879294013686784713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-22890849372676928622014-11-16T10:50:57.683-08:002014-11-16T10:50:57.683-08:00I think it would be more important to track people...I think it would be more important to track people learning in and through networks rather than within a course.sensor63https://www.blogger.com/profile/11879294013686784713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-38558303256304798652014-11-16T10:48:35.452-08:002014-11-16T10:48:35.452-08:00Hi Jon. As I said in my comment to Gardner I didn&...Hi Jon. As I said in my comment to Gardner I didn't say u had used the word 'complete' or ´completion' that is me. However when it comes to Connectivist MOOCs and indeed other learning environments 'participation' is a very tricky thing to measure. What I am saying is that participation (active visible) participation is not necessarily useful and can be dangerous as a frame unless we have a very large and multifaceted set of frames.sensor63https://www.blogger.com/profile/11879294013686784713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-53946182569930087892014-11-16T10:38:10.869-08:002014-11-16T10:38:10.869-08:00Actually the real învestigation here is fascism.Actually the real învestigation here is fascism.sensor63https://www.blogger.com/profile/11879294013686784713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-37339834441760300152014-11-16T10:37:26.183-08:002014-11-16T10:37:26.183-08:00I also think we need some sort of certification. I...I also think we need some sort of certification. I fully agree with the question of framing as in books as in science. I have no problem with boundaries. They are necessary and unavoidable. <br /><br />I can see that this post will lead to a series of related posts. sensor63https://www.blogger.com/profile/11879294013686784713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-1860465461048484442014-11-16T10:28:25.991-08:002014-11-16T10:28:25.991-08:00Hi Gardner thank you for your comment. I agree wit...Hi Gardner thank you for your comment. I agree with much that you write here. I am quite sure that I would get much from attending your courses. The question of course is not really what I am exploring here. It is an exploration of narrative in a complex, dynamic network of potential meanings. It is an exploration of fragments of culture which hold together more or less. It is an exploration of power and the power of dominant stories. <br /><br />I have no really idea what Jon Becker would or would not say about interpretation of statistics - he is certainly right to indicate the necessity not to get over excited about participation in what are described as Massive courses.<br /><br />However I think that the term course can be more closed than open. That largely depends on how we view learning. I did not really feel frustration writing this. <br /><br />I think it would be a mistake to take that narrow interpretation as an indication of what I am exploring.<br /><br />I fully believe in this interest of courses of study.sensor63https://www.blogger.com/profile/11879294013686784713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-86241832455392014662014-11-16T10:25:30.707-08:002014-11-16T10:25:30.707-08:00Thanks for moving the conversation along, Simon.
...Thanks for moving the conversation along, Simon.<br /><br />I wish to point out, though, that I never used any form of the word "complete." My focus was (and will continue to be) on participation. And, while participation that waxes and wanes in these sorts of "courses" is perfectly fine, I'm wondering out loud more about the waning. My hunch (hypothesis? nah...) is that there are bunches of folks who jump in early with great enthusiasm who then disappear entirely; their participation ends. <br /><br />I have the pleasure of working with a doctoral fellow, Laura Gogia, aka @GoogleGuacamole, who is trying to get her head around how we might document (not measure, document) participation and connectedness in order to see how learning happens, unfolds, etc. Stay tuned.<br /><br />Jon Beckerhttp://jonbecker.net/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-53830136532710266092014-11-16T09:48:05.965-08:002014-11-16T09:48:05.965-08:00I kinda think Gardner focused on the course aspect...I kinda think Gardner focused on the course aspect of things when here i thought the blogpost focused on stats and behaviorist an external measures of learning. I agree w u Simon on the latter and uselessness of measuring learning in those ways (or at all?)Maha Balihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09835456120762897437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2194534881328954061.post-66914596907006192742014-11-16T08:54:40.196-08:002014-11-16T08:54:40.196-08:00"A course would have been completely ineffici..."A course would have been completely inefficient for me because in a course they give you one text to concentrate on while the 'teacher' dissects it and gives you lists of words to learn."<br /><br />In some, perhaps even many courses this may be the case. I'm not sure such a course would be very effective for any learner. To me, this is an abuse of the idea of a course of study. I understand that many people experience this kind of course. <br /><br />I've taught many courses that are not like the one you describe. I think that nearly all the courses I've taught have not been that way. I hope so.<br /><br />I also agree, vehemently, that the clickology advocates have missed the point entirely. Perhaps deliberately. I am confident Jon Becker is not a clickologist. "Completion" means something else to him, I believe. I am sure it means something else to me.<br /><br />For me, the question of completing a course of study is not the same question as completing one's learning. No course will ever do that. But a course, like a film or a novel or a musical composition, has a shape that can help to make the experience more meaningful. For me, completing a course of study is like finishing the book one is reading. There is no end to reading, thankfully. But books have shapes, and authors use those shapes the way a painter uses a frame. Similarly, a course of study (and a curriculum, which is made up of courses of study--a kind of metacourse, then) is a small coherence in which the boundaries are meaningful but not constraining. Hard to do, but not impossible.<br /><br />I think I understand your frustration. It does seem to me, though, that the worst cases of traditional schooling do not necessarily invalidate the possibility of usefulness and meaningfulness of the experience of school itself. School is a technology, and like all the other technologies, it can be used well or very badly.<br /><br />More to say on this, but I'll stop here. I do value and savor your continuing explorations.<br />Gardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298202257401928048noreply@blogger.com